R-L21 SOUTH IRISH PROJECT

What is our project? The R-L21 South Irish Project was created to identify the specific unique SNP's that characterize the cluster, as well as match family histories to their mutation from the South Irish haplogroup. The original markers of the South Irish were identified by Dr. Kenneth Nordvedt. The age of the South Irish cluster is: 1640 ybp +/- 233 years according to Alex Williamson () 1400 ybp +/- 190 years according to Anatole Klyosov () "I think it particularly valuable in that I have the suspicion Ireland was peopled multiple times, with the flows into the island centuries if not millennia apart in time. So these different clades within R1b..... found in Ireland, along with the smaller haplogroup I clades found in Ireland may be expressions of these multiple immigrations". Dr. Ken Nordvedt 3/15/2011 Our work will focus on understanding all the haplogroups of Eoganacht surnamed descendants (to understand the many origins of those who called themselves the Eoganachts) with a concentration on the South Irish. Kathleen Sullivan Kerwin, administrator Who is eligible to join: Close GD to South Irish, Ysearch Z9HCX, and Dr. Nordvedt's baseline: 391=10, 385b=15, 439=11, 447=24, 456=15, 442=13, 635=24(a.k.a. GATA-C4, a non-FTDNA marker) 390=24, 458=17, 449=29, H4=11, 565=11 You do not have to be a member of a particular lab to join. If you do not belong to FTDNA, please send me an email to send your results to be added to our research database. STR Analysis: We use str haplogroup analysis along with Deep Clade and SNP testing to determine a member's haplogroup. STR haplogroup analysis is based on theory and may be used to predict Deep Clade or SNP grouping, however only Deep Clade or SNP testing can confirm a members haplogroup. DNA results less than 67 markers are inaccurate. If you wish to improve the accuracy of your predictive results, upgrade to at least 67 markers. How will this project identify the South Irish? South Irish Project Donors that have been tested for 58 markers (multi-allele version of 67 markers) and a GD less than or equal to 10 GD of the 58 marker South Irish and less than or equal to 3 GD of Dr. Nordvedt's 12 marker South Irish We're using a decision tree based on slow moving markers to find families based on their MRCA then adding the fast moving markers to identify branches (not sure how to handle the medium markers). This information will then be applied when the unique South Irish SNP is found (and test donors take this SNP test) with adjustments made to testing criteria and conclusions as necessary. Surnames included (not an inclusive list, surname list in progress – please send us a list of surnames to add): Cahalane, Connelly, Hayes, Lynch, MacAuliffe, MacCarthy, McCarthy, McCarty, MacGillicudy, Mongan,O'Bogue, O'Callaghan, O'Cannifree, O'Cohalane/O'Coughlan, O'Connell, O'Cronin, O'Dennehy, O'Donnell, O'Donoghue, O'Duggan, O'Feehan, O'Flahiffe, O'Flynn, O'Keefe, O'Kirby, O'Leary, O'Long, O'Mahoney, O'Moriarty, O'Neill, Sullivan ClanCAREY surnames (e.g., Carey, Cary, Carry, Carrie, Carew, Kerry,Kery, Kerrie, Kerey and the Ancient Spellings of O'Chairda and O'Cairdha) O'Donoghue, Donaghoe, Donoughe, Donaho, Donahoe, Donough, Donahue, Donahow, Doneghoe, Donehue, Donighue, Donoho, Donohoe, Donahugh, Donohough,Donohow, Donohue, Donaughue, Donaghie, Donaghy ... Bryan, Burns, Clary, Givens, Irwin, McKenna, O'Shea, Reagan, Desmond, Hughey, Fitzgerald, O'Connor, McRay, O'Keefe, McLennan, Mihigan, Hennessey, Towey, O'Kane, Coghlan, Allen, Seal, Kelly, Kenty	Related projects: FTDNA South Irish Project FTDNA Eoganacht sept Project Eo'ganacht septs Project Eo'ganacht Yahoo Groups Forum What's New: The size of our results lists are quite large at this point so that updates will be published less often with much more detail. Current Research: results (haplogroup and close matches): Eo'ganacht, South Irish and Sullivan Results Case Studies Sullivan Project O'Mahoney O'Connell, O'Shea, O'Donoghue Other Case Studies MacFarlane Project methodology for case studies MCRA - determining mutation rates Building phylogenetic trees Building family trees and branches updated May 2, 2011: Insight into SNP testing by Alex Williamson "SNPs are rare. There is nothing special about when they occur. Just one man in history acquires a mutation his father didn't have. He doesn't have to go on to found any great clusters, etc. A SNP may occur before an STR cluster, and include slightly more than we might "want", or it may occur inside a cluster, and include less than what we "want". That many of the SNPs we found so far just happen to fit exactly with an STR cluster, isn't because of a special relationship between clusters and SNPs, instead, it is because of something special about the real world history of many of the clusters we've identified so far. I have no doubt that a SNP corresponding to the bulk of the South Irish will be found. As far as I know, only a small fraction of the Y-chromosome has been carefully examined for SNPs thus far. New tests are always being developed to look at more and more of the Y. It is just a matter of having the right spot examined to find your SNP. It just hasn't happened yet. There aren't necessarily any good or bad candidates. Ideally, all of your South Irish men will either have the SNP or they won't. It is possible as I've alluded to above that you might find a SNP that will include only a fraction of your South Irish men, or perhaps it will include a larger piece of R-L21 which includes the South Irish. The Scots cluster is a very large R-L21 cluster, and it doesn't have an associated SNP yet, despite attempts to find one. Recently a SNP has been found which looks to identify a part of the Scots cluster, but not all of it. There is no reason why one hasn't been found for the South Irish men yet. Many men have tried to find SNPs for various groups, some found them, most did not. There is a lot of Y-DNA however, so there is still plenty of potential for the future. What you need to do is keep trying. Don't try right away though, give some time for new tests to be developed, then try again. Eventually it will just happen." updated April 24, 2011 Results workbook for: Eo'ganacht sept, South Irish, find your closest haplogroup(s) Trinity Study 2008 analysis Updated March 12, 2011: L459 is currently found to be equivalent to L21 so everyone that is L21 will have L459. Tests are not completed but we don't suggest anyone spend funds to take the L459 test at this time. The updated phylogenetic tree reflects L21 and L459 at par. Updated March 6, 2011: The L459 Advanced SNP is available, however it is still not known where it belongs near L21. An updated phylogenetic tree shows it downstream from L21 but this has not been confirmed. I did see another document which showed tests for L459 being ancestral so closer to L21 than a subclade. Nothing has been confirmed. Research still in progress. South Irish research project - is starting Phrase I - ID donors: Donors with 58 markers in GAP 2.0 <= to 10 GD of the 58 marker South Irish and <= to 3 GD of Dr. Nordvedt's 12 marker South Irish Phase II - ID family relationships and branches of the family. We'll be organizing based on slow, med and faster moving markers while considering more complex events: Back mutations Convergence Null Palindromes Parallel mutations RecLOH The slow moving markers help confirm the family relationship, while the fast moving markers may help identify DNA differences among the branches of the family Updated February 8, 2011: SNP L459 - is currently being studied as the possible unique South Irish SNP or a new SNP in L21. The South Irish project funded the $750 Walk the Y test (WTY) looking for the unique South Irish SNP. It walks the entire Y chromosome looking for SNPs. Our donor, Kevin Edmund Sullivan kit# 179653, is the only one identified as having the L459 SNP in the entire FTDNA database. There have been 13 others at other labs and we have no specific information about them. We now need to find out where this SNP is in the L21 haplogroup. Is it upstream or downstream? We are hoping it is the South Irish SNP but much work still needs to be done. Look at this page to view the graphic of the L21 haplogroups: http://southirish.com/haplogroups.htm then look down the page and see South Irish (Irish Type II). This way you view the hierarchy and can follow the testing as it progresses. Note that the South Irish (Irish Type II) are missing a SNP (the column to the left of the project name). If the L459 SNP is upstream from L21, then everyone in the L21 haplogroup should have the SNP. If downstream, we need to test each known L21 haplogroup to see where it belongs. In any case, 1 – 2 members of each project will need to be tested. The difference is whether it is looking for a positive or negative result. Periodically we will post significant findings. In funding the WTY test, we were looking to make history for the South Irish. We didn’t anticipate making history for all the L21 members. In any case we’ll all have the opportunity to follow the discovery, testing and analysis of a new SNP. Kathleen, project admin See How to order an advanced SNP test below.

	How to order an advanced SNP test from FTDNA: You log into to your account. From the left navigation bar select: Order tests & Upgrades Select Order Advanced tests Select 'SNP' in the test type box; Enter the SNP Name in the marker box; Add the test ($29)